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| - | ====== ADC archive ====== | + | You've imrspesed us all with that posting! |
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| - | ===== THEMES ===== | + | |
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| - | * ‘Open Helsinki’ - grassroot urban culture | + | |
| - | * Helsinki as a mental mode. (suggested by Kim Viljanen) | + | |
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| - | * Open Design (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_design) | + | |
| - | * Reconceptualizations of design (Designing Good Design) | + | |
| - | * Looking at creative methodologies before products = Celebrating ingenuity = Permaculture. | + | |
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| - | * Digital culture | + | |
| - | * Hacking all sorts. (How about hacking WDC? :) | + | |
| - | * Open Hardware, Hackerspace ideology (as part of the picture - they do a lot of open design things ) | + | |
| - | * The transition from atoms to bits. | + | |
| - | * Open Data + (Open) Government Transparency (related to Open Design of course) ( << from Miska Knapek) | + | |
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| - | ===== SLOGANS / STATEMENTS ===== | + | |
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| - | **Designing good design** | + | |
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| - | “We introduce new, interactive design in the intersections of digital and physical, immaterial and material. We are in it for new, optimism and good.“ | + | |
| - | (digital+physical+social?) | + | |
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| - | ===== HOW WILL ALT-WDC WORK? ===== | + | |
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| - | * A simple website with a map + calendar, with a possibility to announce events (and perhaps write blog postings?) | + | |
| - | * A Facebook page and interfaces for other social media | + | |
| - | * A logo that all participants can use | + | |
| - | * badges with the logo / slogan to be embedded to web sites | + | |
| - | * Maybe a flyer? | + | |
| - | * a logo of somekind, that all those participating this could use in order to visualize the belonging to this | + | |
| - | * If the “inforack” idea is in found feasible, it could be tied to this somehow. | + | |
| - | * MANIFESTO which we will uphold and cherish (the logos etc. will link to this text). /People people.. Content before form. | + | |
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| - | ===== LINKS ===== | + | |
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| - | * http://www.turku2011.info/ | + | |
| - | * The Turku Culture Capital OFF project. (Perhaps they should be consulted. They oughta have some experience on what to expect). | + | |
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| - | ===== ARCHIVE ===== | + | |
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| - | * [[Discussion about name]] for Alt-WDC | + | |
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| - | ===== GENERAL DISCUSSION ===== | + | |
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| - | What about not just calling for new projects but looking around and highlighting what is (from the alt point of view) "open design" already in Helsinki? small projects and initiatives that exemplify that things happen already? From all kinds of fields -not only digital- (e.g ravintolapäivä, opendata experiments, puistotäti, etc etc) concrete, beautiful big and small initiatives that have impact and what part of OPEN bits they exemplify, how they challenge traditional notions of design, but also how they exemplify good design (Andrea) | + | |
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| - | (We could also welcome projects which have been selected to the programme but will not get any financial support from Helsinki WDC?) Anon: Possibly.. We have to remain open for everyone. Even if we do not like it we are a part of WDC's content. Every cool event has a shadow event - So they oughta pay us to make them cool. I think we should agree on a MANIFESTO of a sort. Projects which want to take part in WDC OFF should uphold some values common with ours. | + | |
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| - | WDC seems to focus on safe and very traditional sense of design. Could we build an open platform for all kinds of alternative works of art, events and other things? The the Heineken Open Source Stage at Flow was pretty cool example of using Facebook as platform for public voting — something similar here perhaps? | + | |
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| - | One definition that popped up at Nordkapp discussions was “Like Ravintolapäivä, but for design”. | + | |
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| - | <rant>There are many forces and conflicts at play here, which might be useful to analyse a bit. Design as a concept (or an institution) has a lot internal tension and a lot of diversity - just take a look at the graduate programs at TaiK to give you an idea. Then of course, there’s always the dynamic between design and art. Some people like to argue for “design as art” but then there is also a strong push towards establishing a distinct professional identity for designers - and these people don’t like to be called artists at all. So at the same time there are designers who see their works in the same category as fine arts and think of themselves as artists and then there are designers who couldn’t care less for art - even though that’s what their education stars from: drawing, sculpting, observations, expression, etc. To make this even an bigger mess, we have to look at e the situation in Finland the Welfare State and the place that art and culture have in it. In Finland we have these things like “kulttuurialat” or “luovat alat” - which are both kind of hybridized, toned-down translations of the expressions of “cultural industries” or “creative industries” - which are very much sub. In the 20th century Welfare State model, in which state subsidizes art and culture institutions to create art and culture on national and local levels. Design is still considered in some discussions, to be part of these art and culture thingies we have here, and it is at the same time a good and a bad thing. In other discussions design is integrated a lot more into things like business, economy, consumption or ecology - and all this integration is often driven by a cold, rational logic, which is a good thing, but can become boring. To wrap up, as I’m taking too much space and nobody probably is interested in these things but me, I think we have to think *very* carefully for ourselves of what we want to do and in what context(s) we want to operate. One thing that will most certainly require thought-work, is deconstructing the assumptions we (and I mean not only us who write this but the “finnish design, art and culture scene” together) have about design and what it is about. If it’s reduced into a mere driver of consumption, a brand value enhancer or a key competitive advantage of the Finnish export industries, design is pretty much fucked. :) -- V.T. </rant> | + | |
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| - | <rant> Here is a quote/defintion from Anthony Dunne, who is well-known in design- as well as in art-field. "Critical design, or design that asks carefully crafted questions and makes us think, is just as difficult and just as important as design that solves problems and find answers. Being provocative and challenging might seem like an obvious role for art, but art is far too removed from the world of mass consumption and electronic consumer products to be effective in this context, even though it is of course part of consumerist culture." (Design Noir : The Secret Life of Electronic Objects, 2001, Dunne & Raby.) | + | |
| - | From my own experience, for some reason, specially in scandinavian countries the division between design and art is much more rigid than for example in central europe, japan... Maybe it would be good to stay away from categories and borders as much as possible? LB </rant> | + | |
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| - | <comment>After thinking about it, I think it could also be great to tackle the categories head-on. The concepts/categories which seem to be work at here are art, design and culture. In general, categories can easily paralyze people and create perceptions and representations which, when hen relied too much upon, prevent people from acting in a sensible way in relation to the real "state of affairs". -- V.T.</comment> | + | |
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| - | <comment>Some kind of contemporary design publication Finnish design writing is pretty much non-existant at the moment. This is a problem for the intellectual development of the local “design scene”. We had “Muoto” which served the purpose at some point but in the end it transformed into a failed attempt of driving the consumption of “design” in all of it’s forms which was a dead end, obviously. At the moment Grafia (the graphic designer’s association) and SAFA (the architects’ association) have their own professional magazines. The situation is very “silo’d”. There needs to be communication and dialogue about what design is, was and will be, which busts these silos open and an independent publication would serve such purpose well.</comment> | + | |
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| - | aahonen: I would recommend something like "Anti-design" or something similar. Design is kind of opposite term to openness, so if we want to give alternatives I think many of those will be Design-critical, anti-design or just naturally outside of design. | + | |
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| - | So we could gather projects that are related to problems of design (ecological, esthetic, ideological etc.), but also positive examples of doing things outside the design concept. | + | |
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| - | msalaspuro: Hey all, Some ideas for the Hacking theme: Hacking IKEA was one great project that I saw once in Amsterdam and there are several online communities sharing great Hacks. Also Instructables is great thematic world to work with http://www.instructables.com. Repairing could be one theme (as its encouraging to find new lives for not anymore used or broken objects). Then about the Open and Participating People>> Maybe using private spaces (such as participants / people's home windows for exhibiting some nice design related exhibition). That was just some ideas that came to mind. | + | |
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| - | tuomo: If de-sign is etymologically marking out, the opposite could be just signing or subscribing. Anti- is strong but also exlcluding, alternative is more open, imo. | + | |
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| - | Elina: I would be careful with anti-words, because it is about design and creativity, just in a broader alternative sense. | + | |
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| - | Ville: I agree with this. If WDC embodies a limited view of design, we shouldn’t agree with it. | + | |
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| - | villetee: Googling underground design capital gives us near to no hits. atm. | + | |
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| - | tuomo: before name/logo/identity, there should be an understanding how they relate to WDC. If there's need for constant comparison & discourse between this "ALT" and WDC, the identity of ALT should be reflecting WDC. It should likely carry the W D C letters and the ALT identity should be built from WDC identity. This would emphasize the critique towards WDC. The other option is emphasizing the activities themselves regardless of WDC. To put it (too)short and finnish, vastakkainasettelu or not. Gaining press would likely benefit from former, more provocative approach but the flipside is the risk of too polarised good-bad-right-wrong debate and creative energy tied in facilitating the critique from the practice of true openness through the activities. Any takes on this? | + | |
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| - | juha h: I think this discussion we are having here is important in itself, and we should make this discussion public asap (imo we can go public as soon as we've decided the name... always a difficult task ;). Some comments and suggestions here are related to design (challenging the definition of design, experimenting with design, hacking, 'anti-design', etc) and some to Open Helsinki (citizen activism, etc). And of course there are many overlaps. There is a great diversity in these approaches and I would suggest that we would embrace this diversity, instead of trying to fit everything too tightly under one statement. In this sense I think it would be fruitful to have 'Alternative Design Capital' or 'Underground Design Capital' (whatever name we happen to choose) as the common denominator, at least in the beginning, since that how we all got attracted here. And for the media etc the weight of the official WDC will also give weight for the alternative. But I do agree with Tuomo that it's not good to dwell on the critique of the official WDC too much, it's much more interesting to try to make things happen and link the discussion to these activities. | + | |
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| - | tuomo: indeed, editing this wikipage is not practical enough for the various voices. Communicating in English among mostly Finns for the potential of a larger audience does not help it either. Antti's remark on design being non-open by default is very interesting and we had a a chance to discuss that bit further face2face. My suggestion is to keep this "definition" discourse alive on the side, but not let that slow down the rest. (The) Alternative Design Capital sounds like an understandable concept. Would it be too bold to suggest to go with that and concentrate the energy for the content itself? | + | |
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| - | ville: Alternative Design Capital sounds good. One potential way in which to differentiate from WDC: frivolity. Mainstream design lacks humour and designers and architects take themselves very seriously. It's a serious business. Using humour or, for example pranks, as material has big potential. ;) | + | |
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| - | juha h: I think Alternative Design Capital would work well... The acronym ADC is a bit boring, we should come up with a nice acronym and/or a clever logo. | + | |
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| - | juha h: I just spoke with tuomo on the phone, and thought that we should make the move now to make this discussion more public and accessible... So I just opened a Facebook page that will make this easier for many people to access (I'm aware that some people don't want to have anything to do with Facebook). We can still keep this page as the place to to gather ideas. | + | |
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| - | teemu l: I would like to see kaupunginosayhdistykset in the ALT-WDC. In "open society" civil society actors should have an important role in the process of creating public policies. I made a | + | |
| - | test search on the http://helka.net/ -site with the "WDC" and couldn't find much. Does anyone know people from the kaupunginosayhdistykset? | + | |
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| - | andrea: yes Teemu.. you and me know one we actually invited for last year's seminar- I have email. | + | |
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| - | Eero: I **dont** like alternative. It's like alternative rock. If something, we are non-normative or non canonical or leftish. Seriously, alternative confines us to the marginal and I dont believe we are in the marginal. Our audiences will agree that (at least what I'm reading on this wiki) we make more sense then most of the stuff they will meet in the WDC events. Alternative would also go to suggest that we would not be up for negotiations nor could we incorporate ideas from the official design world (read. WDC) into the projects we'll do. Which is not true. We are not alternative - We run Parallel. Not directly alternative (OR) but parallel (IF). **EDIT** | + | |
| - | As it seems there is however strong support for ALT. so that's gonna stick then. Anyway: We should not rush things. WDC has rushed things and they are in trouble because of this. This is the first thing we should learn. | + | |
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| - | tuomo: I don't personally interpret alternative as marginal or excluding. Anti- would be those. But I guess we flavor these kind of words differently. I suggest that we make the activities define what it is and not get too stuck with naming it. | + | |
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| - | Eero: Ok. | + | |
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| - | ville: About 'don't rush things'. How slow and relaxed could we be about this and still be open? This kind of thing can easily speed up and grow too big and become a real pain in the arse to coordinate. Any ideas what to take into account if we want to make this as scalable as possible but at the same time give *OURSELVES* some slack with this? I don't know about you all, but I'm a very lazy man. :) | + | |
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| - | juha h: I think Eero's comment is valuable. Parallel Design Capital means something different than Alternative Design Capital and gives different possibilities. I personally like the word Non-Aligned as well (see for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aligned_Movement) but Parallel is probably better. I wonder what would be a good translation for this in Finnish? Also about slowness - I find that slowness is important in openness and democracy, without slowness it's impossible to take diverse opinions into account. And I should add that we don't necessarily have to aim for consensus here - we should try to support diversity. I would suggest that in the first meeting we would vote about the name. We can still change it - it will just cause some mess in Facebook, but that's better than having a 'wrong' name the whole next year. | + | |
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| - | teemu l: Good points. Would it be too bold to call it "Open-WDC" ? | + | |
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| - | teemu l: I like a lot the “Like Ravintolapäivä, but for design” -idea mentioned earlier in the discussion. There could be, for instance "pop-up galleries", "pop-up design workshops for children", "pop-up workshops in different neighborhoods to do participatory design". The web (site + facebook + google maps) would provide a platform to coordinate (to make it possible to find the events). The results of the events could also be published online in the same site. | + | |
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| - | tuomo: If alternative tastes excluding and parallel is not too metaphysical, it's a winner. But indeed, maybe voting for this is interesting experiment of defining it. Rinnakkaisdesignpääkaupunki is one hell of a term, it's tricky to fit in the business card of the rinnakkaisdesignpääkaupunkiohjelmakoordinaattori. Luckily there will be no need for such a role. | + | |
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| - | vt: yes, i also think that the ravintolapäivä, but for design pretty much nails it - and what can be done. anyone from the ravintolapäivä engaged in our process? they must have good insight into how to organize the things - do's and don't. | + | |
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| - | joanna: great initiative this alt-wdc :) I remember I once saw a guy who brought a big sofa to the shore of hakaniemenranta and sat there reading. I thought that was a great example of a pop-up urban lounge... | + | |
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| - | Andrea: pop-up urban lounges and ravintolapäivä type of things might help also the point of "Humor" VT was proposing as good strategy. Meaningful things but not stiff, bureaucratic, boring business as usual could be a nice goal to achieve | + | |
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| - | juha h: About 'Like Ravintolapäivä, but for design' - I think Ravintolapäivä already offers a great design challenge for people: 'design a concept for a pop-up restaurant for a day'. And the brilliance of Ravintolapäivät is that it's very easy to get people to come and enjoy the results of this design challenge. And on top of that, the event manages to bypass the complex laws and bureocratic routines which are involved in starting a proper restaurant. It's amazing that authorities let this event happen - hopefully we will see more of this attitude amongst the bureocrats in future. A big thumbs up for Ravintolapäivä for all this! | + | |
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| - | I guess the more generic formulation of 'Like Ravintolapäivä, but for design' is that we should encourage citizens to act as designers, or try to raise more awareness of great everyday design activity that is already out there. We should definitely do more brainstorming on this, preferably face2face, maybe we can come up with a great flagship project (or several!) for Alt-WDC. But we should also bear in mind that crowdsourcing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdsourcing) is nowadays pretty much a standard tool for PR-companies, every other advertisement seems to have a Facebook link that offers a possibility for people to be 'designers' and/or active participants. We should try to do something a bit more challenging than just offer light and easy entertainment, right? | + | |
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| - | juha h: The first meeting will take place next Monday! Many ideas have been proposed here, will be nice to talk more about these! And let's see if some of us are willing to get some things into action. It's hopefully obvious that this project is based on 'voluntocracy', those who actually do something can make an impact on what this project is. | + | |
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| - | juha h: A couple of practical things: in the meeting we should decide the name and then set up a better discussion forum - any web-tech skilled volunteers? Also someone could make a proposal for a logo? | + | |
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| - | ville: an idea which might help us to get the ball rolling: i posted to a link to the book in facebook page a moment ago and it started a thought process. how do we know if we are "open" enough? should we somehow put early effort into participation and 'outreach' towards groups of people who are not engaged to WDC *OR* ADC at the moment? i'm now talking about young people (15-20 yr old), old people, immigrants and other groups not part of the mainstreams of design, art and culture. what do you think? how to go about with this? there's a possibility to make a point with this so the groups should be interesting and projects powerful. | + | |
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| - | joanna: just one idea as I can't make it this evening: I think the Avignon festival model is quite similar to what we're looking for: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festival_d'Avignon]] They have the "in" festival, so the official one, and the "off" festival at the same time, which is self organized by theater companies, performers of all kinds. What is great in July in Avignon, is that there is something for everybody, and the streets are buzzing with all kinds of "off" activities, with mimes, spontaneous performances, banquets etc. | + | |
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| - | sampsa: Someone mentioned that kaupunginosayhdistykset should be linked to alt-wdc. We have an ongoing, open, people powered community design/planning process in Pohjois-Haaga and Lassila. You could actually call it an alternative plan for the community plan that was produced top-down by Helsinki city. I know that our neighboring community, Maunula, is involved with the official wdc. You can find more info on our process here [[http://kaupunginosat.net/pohjoishaaga/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2363&Itemid=931|Alueen asukkaat tekemään omaa aluesuunnitelmaa Pohjois-Haagalla ja Lassilalle ]], [[http://kaupunginosat.net/pohjoishaaga/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2384&Itemid=212|Asukkaiden aluesuunnitelma alkaa muotoutumaan ]] and here [[http://kaupunginosat.net/pohjoishaaga/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2398&Itemid=212 |Asukkaiden aluesuunnitelma selkiytyy ]]. We are planning to arrenge a meeting to coordinate the different themes in November and kick off a park and green spaces working group to work along the already existing traffic wg in the spring. You can reach me with p.haaga (at) gmail.com. | + | |
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| - | juha h: sampsa - would be great if you could come to the next ADC meeting, to tell about the process you have started in pohjois-haaga and lassila. In the previous meeting ([[Monday 26 September meeting]]), the topic that got most attention was 'citizens as designers'. we definitely need to continue discussions about this! | + | |
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| - | andrew p: Related to funding, I suggest as a practical matter we start up a 'sunday soup' type initiative. It is a great way to maintain & develop community-spirit and also raise micro-funding from that community and supporters to seed projects. I propose that ADC does this.. sunday soup international network (http://sundaysoup.org/about).. Sunday Soup type cultural funding started originally by Incubate Chicago (http://incubate-chicago.org/sundaysoupfaq.html). There is also a recent development initiated by Platoniq in Barcelona called Goteo, which considers crowdfunding from the Commons perspective: http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/crowdfunding-as-the-trojan-horse-of-the-commons/2011/07/21 | http://www.goteo.org | + | |